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Extract Translation by Dominica, revised by Catherine
Chapter 1
WATER FLOWETH NOT Eric Baret, I met you via your book Water Floweth Not. What does that title mean ? It is a poetic formula. In truth, it means nothing. But expressed on an intellectual level, it means that consciousness is forever free of its expressions. You have been invited to give a yoga seminar in Montreal. What is yoga according to you ? It is a way of being. Rather than telling you what direction to take, it shows you how to give full reign to your perception. I attended a two-hour yoga session with you to prepare for this dialogue. I never was particularly attracted to yoga. Yet with you I had the impression that I felt what yoga was for the first time in my life. It is so soft and gentle. Other yogas I have tried aimed at getting rid of tension and combatting stress. Is this non-dual yoga of yours related to any other yoga taught in the West ? To put the emphasis on the tension is part of what they call « the progressive path » in India, or « the path of purification ». In the progressive path, the idea that creation is separate from the creator is somewhat upheld. In the direct path, specific blockages may well be emphasized, but only momentarily. These knots or antagonisms may simply come into light from the standpoint of our attention, from the standpoint of stillness. To systematically want to purify body and mind is to be violent. It involves projection into the future. That is anticipation. Yoga, on the contrary, is lived in the moment. There is nothing to expect, nothing to anticipate. What we are has always been present. There is nothing to find. You simply face the facts and little by little the sense of isolation and restriction vanishes. When your vision expects nothing, whatever you observe, whether it be a physical sensation or another perception, will appear with hitherto unknown ramifications related to their surroundings. A tension relating to its surroundings is no longer a tension, since tension is separation. Therefore to systematically fight tension is to procrastinate. It is a vicious circle. You spend your whole life trying to relax. It shows a serious lack of perspective. You seem rather against systematic group meetings to practice various postures and movements. You seem quite a distance away from that form of physical exercise called yoga or hatha-yoga. Is it not at all your practice ? I have nothing against meeting on a regular basis for the joy of being together. To live the silence amongst friends is a beautiful moment. But to meet with the aim of progressing, of « emptying » the body, indicates a lack of orientation. Your approach is Kashmiri. I hear people talk about Kashmiri yoga. What is that tradition all about ? Yoga is often presented in reference to Vedanta. Vedanta is a non-dualistic path pointing directly to silence. In Kashmir, several centuries B.C., there appeared for the first time in Indian history a formulation accentuating essential freedom, including the multiple aspects of life. This approach to yoga was inspired by the direct path. It appeared at that time as a celebration. You are also an art collector. The statue of Indra illustrating your book was found by you in the East and brought back to the West. It is not very ancient. It dates from the 13th century and comes from Nepal. I don't believe in collecting objects, but it sometimes happens through the blessing of life that I encounter objects such as this. Then these art pieces go their separate way. When you live with a piece of art for a certain time, or if you go to museums, you may feel moved by certain shapes. If you don't try to date, name or explain the shape, the fragrance of it will take over. The fragrance lives in you physically. There is the feeling of a kind of freedom. Take a Khmer buddha, for example. You see the smile and you become the smile. It happens because the statue was not created by a personality, by a person : it was an inner experience which came to life. In the same way, you can taste your own silence while listening to Mozart. Looking at or listening to an authentic work of art brings you back to its origin. I have heard you say, « What is essential is experienced in intimacy. Yoga practice is a solitary experience. It is not possible to listen and feel at the same time, and thus a yoga class makes no sense. » The opposite is also true. It is important not to rigidify, not to always be setting up rules. If you meet someone who has a taste for these things, who has known the same constraints as yourself, he can give you a certain amount of information about these blockages. But that's second-hand knowledge. You will then take possession of that data, but not through discipline. That is not possible. He might suggest ways of dealing with your situation, of facing the various knots in your body, in your breath, and in your thinking process. He could indicate how not to emphasize the antagonisms you perceived, how to stay in your openness whenever an antagonism is felt. But it is up to you to turn a second-hand experience into a first-hand experience. An intimate experience cannot be transmitted. One can only point out the direction to follow. How did you come to yoga ? One does not come to a tradition. First there is a sense of an underlying resonance. It cannot be expressed with words. Then one day a text or a person appears and you realize later that that text or that person expresses what you have been sensing all along, without being able to clearly express it. The person you met has had a direct experience of what you have forefelt. It is completely impersonal. You don't go looking for a guru. You cant't try to belong to a tradition. You met your guru twenty-five years ago. I have been told that the approach you now express comes from him, that you have been formed by him. Is that true ? The word « formed » does not apply here. Let us say rather that the formulation I heard coming forth from him seemed very appropriate, impregnated with silence, and I felt a certain joy at tasting that formulation. What is a guru ? What is the lineage of your master ? It is not possible to be very close to a guru, unlike mundane relationships where there can be a sense of closeness or separation. There is a fragrance. It expresses itself in time in a particular way. In fact, it is a bond which does not bind. It would be more appropriate to hang a blank page on your wall than a photograph of your teacher. You cannot think of your master. In India it is not usual to name one's guru. The object of love is too intimate to be exposed. And there is no lineage or succession, or else it becomes a business. There is only something that's evident. And yet you wrote something very beautiful concerning your master. Can I ask you to repeat it to us ? I wouldn't want to misquote you. A quotation is meant to be forgotten right away. The one you are aluding to was made in a specific context. It is attributed to the legendary Hanuman, the god of breath, the one who unites Rama to Sita. Rama is consciousness. Sita is consciousness forgetting itself. Hanuman is the god of wind, of breath. In yoga, it is the union of the inner breaths, of what is called in India prana-apana, which celebrates understanding. That is why Hanuman is always worshipped before yoga practice. The quotation attributed to him is expressed in the sense that Hanuman is also the symbol of the perfect disciple in India. In the scriptures, when asked about his relationship with Rama, he replied: From the point of view of my body, I am his servant. But you must forget it ! |
 Les Crocodiles ne pensent pas |
 Le Yoga tantrique du Cachemire |
 Le Sacre du Dragon Vert |
 Le Seul Désir |
 Songs of the Ultimate |
 De l'abandon |
 Corps de vibration, corps de silence |
